The folks at National Business Online (NBO) have just rubbed me up the wrong way – completely!
They rang my husband 4 times this morning insisting that he urgently renew his advertising contract with them. He was busy and got annoyed by the 4 calls and caught my attention.
If he had paid to advertise with this company in the past it is reasonable that he would have OK’d it with me first, after all I know about these things 🙂 and I know I wouldn’t have OK’d it.
So, I rang NBO and got an answerphone and then finally Sonia rang me back and helped me find our ad – under
Home :: Building & Maintenance :: Building Repair & Maintenance :: Property Consultants :: NZ
which seems a little odd given that that isn’t what he does. Even odder is the listing
The listing itself rings major alarm bells – we would never have approved it
- Andrew King Ltd is not a currently registered company, and has never been registered to us
- Po should be PO
- The suburb name is spelt wrong
- Andrew would have listed one of his websites rather than gone for a text only listing. The link that is shown refers back to the directory.
Not good on such a short listing…
I asked Sonia for a copy of the original invoice and she said it would take a couple of weeks but that she’d get it for me. An easy out or will she deliver?
So, I did some digging and found
Company: 1219939 NATIONAL BUSINESS DIRECTORY LIMITED
with one director, a Kaur Singh PRITAM
Address: 1/73 Wintere Rd, Papatoetoe, Auckland
and this company had been incorporated on 18-JUN-2002 and struck off on 19-MAR-2004
That’s just over a year ago. So my husband must have been one of the first customers if he bought advertising from the new company and it’s up for renewal today: 30-MAR-2005
I used the Domainz lookup for NBO.co.nz and found the owner is now Shallandra Singh of the same address. The email address given is for nbd.co.nz but that domain is currently available so they may come unstuck when the time comes to renew the domain.
I then went to Google.
- No companies link back to NBO, not even to say “I’m listed there”- example #1, example #2
- Consumer have an article on Pro Forma Invoicing scams
- Ministry of Consumer Affairs: Pro Forma Invoicing or False Billing Scams
- An article in the New Zealand Herald: Commerce watchdog to assess website listings business just before the original company was struck off.
I’ll keep watching these guys and I’ll let you know if they come up squeaky clean or not.
I sent my favourite site checker Xenu through the site and stopped it after it had amassed the following statistics:
Now, I didn’t complete the scan, who knows what the figures would have been if I’d continued to scan the remaining 136,523 pages. Not to worry, even Google hasn’t ploughed the whole way through. It stopped at 69,800.
I accept that this is a directory of normal listings as well as online listings but isn’t it astounding that (on average) only 1 in 14 pages actually has a link to a website on it? Infact, I sampled pages from the list and was getting empty categories. It seems that they have a structure in place and are serving it up, content or not. Frustrating for users.
I’ve learnt alot from SEO websites and a good forum is at DigitalPoint. If you read up on directories there you will see that for low PR directories it is advised that they don’t demand a recipricol link. Well, if it’s not good practice for a simple link, then $89 seems to be out of the question!
The problem though, is not so much their gumption at asking people to pay for a listing, it’s the way they operate and the fact they’re claiming we’re renewing our listing.
You can see an alphabetical list of those sites who are listed in this NZ Directory.
My conclusion is that any website listed in the directory must have paid the $89. If they paid the $89 was it to “renew” or for a new listing. Given the way they dealt with us I’m guessing it was to “renew” therefore this is actually a list of victims.
Now this is funny. I just searched on Google for nbo nz – just to see if this site shows up and found the following in the top 10
On the off chance that this site is kosher it’s pretty tragic if it’s out SEO’d by a blog when it’s job is to give maximum representation to it’s paid advertisers.
Interesting, the Domainz nbo check is still at number one but this page has dropped right off.
Sonia never did ring me back with information about the invoicing. I wonder if I should chase her up?!
Just had a cranky call from a chap at NBO upset at my NZ Directory I had for a while over on my old botspotter domain. Funny thing is by the time he found it I no longer own the domain, so presumably not the content?
Just to make him happy I’ve taken down the directory, which was an experiment anyway. I’ve been meaning to because it had adsense on it and because I wasn’t actively maintaining the directory it was potentially in conflict with the adsense TOS.
We discussed my thoughts on his company and he was very angry at my allegations but did little to refute them. I maintain that I’m entitled to my opinion, and that others are entitled to theirs. I am not an investigator etc and as such my opinion must fall into the “disgruntled non-customer” category and not as an industry watchdog, nor as a legal expert.
I was very interested to see your feedback posted on NBO. This company called me about a week ago asking us to advertise on their website, saying they had just listed a new section and we could be part of it for $300 + GST.
I had never heard of NBO so I asked whether it had been independently reviewed and what the stats were for the site – the salesperson rattled off some impressive sounding figures and then directed me to the wesite which looked professional
They then charged an additional $80-80 to make up the ad – which they agreed to reduce when I complained that I thought this was included. Sonia sent me the proof with the email saying “hope you like your ad”. I emailed back saying I was pretty unimpressed and that it looked nothing like the ad I had sent them and asked them to copy. It looked like the sort of thing someone would make up themselves. The second proof arrived back today and didn’t look any better than the first. It was then that I got concerned and googled “NBO” only to discover that it didn’t really show up – and that’s when I saw your comments (which have got me very worried).
Hi Sarah,
Here’s some more news for you. The company that originally developed the site for these guys does not have a website of their own. How good is that. I bet they had no idea in the first place how to run an online business directry. Its not aa a joke. Hope you concurr knowing that you had had an online directory of your own. Moreso, if you run the spider script once again you may be able to identify the hosting server that the queries are bouncing off. When you do manage to locate the server, many new things will pop up that are sure to take up your attention. Although, you seemed to have had a reason to write this blog, I dont really want to rub anyone the wrong way so I’ll let you do the digging.
By the way just a short note about SEO: The reason your blog has out SEO’d this website is because
1. It(this blog) has been updated fairly regularly.
2. Because it has the right mix of keywords and key phrases to outsmart the original NBO website.
3. This blog also has a number of links to relatively high PR sites.
But if you wish to keep this blog alive, you may need to continue the updates and see the magic. Ever since Google’s Florida Update proper SEO has become a very specialised field.
For certain reasons, some silly old people have made these guys a lot of money. I havent supplied the correct email address here for personal reasons. If you think you would like to have a dialogue re this please feel free to update these posts and I will be able to locate them somewhere on the cyber space when I go for a walk every now and then.
Until then…CHOW
God Bless
Not quite sure where NEO is coming from.
Basic checks on Domainz show the site was created by QTO. They also take credit for NZ Film Connection although Strobe are linked to that site also (details). A tracert shows NBO is on the same server as the NZ Film Connection but the contact details don’t imply a real connection.
A full DNS report shows a couple of oddities but I’m no expert on them. Only thing that’s odd is that they don’t use the domain for their email. A check on domains I look after showed an equal number of errors so I’d be unwise to pour scorn 😉
Server issues are a distraction from the issue I was trying to raise, however.
This is where NEO is coming from:
I simply stumbled upon this post one day during my usual walks on the cyber grasslands. After reading what you have said in your earliler posts, I could see a lot of vengeance from your part so I felt like trying to see what this was all about. Since I had nothing better to do, I just did a couple of searches and came up with some stuff that was not quite in line with what you have said about NBO. Whereas some of the other stuff you have mentioned is 100% accurate (Company rego, SEO issues etc…)
Now I have a fair bit of experience with SEO and similar stuff but never thought of taking it professionally. too lazy…
Based on what I know about SEO, I mentioned a couple of points that shows why your blog is ahead of the NBO website. Today if you create a blog about Yellow Pages and give it the same publicity it will be listed ahead of the original yellow pages website even theough yellow pages has a page rank of 7.
It is not fair to judge the SEO capabilities of a website especially when you ar comparing it with a blog (page rank 3) on a website (page rank 4). Please dont think I am talkign in favor of NBO or anyone else. I could’nt care less what they did to you or anyone else. The fact of the matter is that their initial approach about your listing was not right. The website is pretty budget (internally) and by reading this post the guys at NBO must be going nucking futs.
Keep diggin if you feel like. For all you know it might be one of those bottomless pits.
Chow…
Oh I don’t think they have much to worry about. The type of people who will fall for their high pressure tactics don’t appear to search Google to verify stuff.
And my comments about ranking were just an aside. However I would expect the site to rank well if I’m going to get a return on my advertising dollars. I’m still waiting to see any form of promotion for the directory – either online or in the print / tv media.
I’ve only found a few sites linking to NBO and these were general link exchanges. I haven’t found any online endorsements. I’d be interested in your pointing me in the right direction. I’m totally open to this being a huge misunderstanding.
NBO have struck again – one of my colleagues was all set to ‘renew’ their subscription (our company had changed management so he figured this was something that was being done before he came on board) but something didn’t quite ring true with me.
I checked their website which was definitely short of convincing and led me to do a Google search and all I found was this site.
I believe quite firmly that this is definitely another scam. Only the price has gone up since the last one quoted here, it is now $96, as long as we renew in the next half hour of course!
BEWARE OF NBO!
We received a fax today regarding the renewal of our listing. I was not aware of a listing so checked the website. An hour or so later, Tania called asking me about the fax and alerting me to the special offer. I told her that I was not aware of a listing and could not recall having paid or ordered a listing two years ago. She mentioned that we would have paid. When I insisted, she said that maybe we had been selected as one of the few non paying special customers. I asked her for proof and she said that two years ago they did not do anything in writing….. all extremely dodgy and I mentioned that to her. All I can say …. do not pay NBO anything and they should be reported to the Consumer Commission
Thanks guys for your site! NBO called me today to tell me that it was time to renew…I looked up the site, and there we were. It was $96 to renew…I was going to too, $96 aint much and all our competitors were on the site! She said I signed up 2 years ago…funny thing is, I don’t remember (and I would have). So..I googled it and found this.
They told me NBO was an Australian company. What a crock! I am supposed to fax the order back by 12pm to get an extra 3 months free…I will ignore it but I guarantee they will ring me and when they do I am going to give them a piece of my mind!! Dodgy!
cheers,
AM – Auckland.
Our group advertises in the yellow pages extensively, under all our individual company names.
The calls are all ported to a single nationwide 0800 number, so we quickly identify phone scams such as that practised by NBO
Since Oct 2006 I have received 6 telemarketing calls that all begin with
“Do you want to renew your listing in the NBO that you took out with us two years ago.”
When I challenge this opening with “We never listed with your company” I get a variety of excuses and a quick back pedal from the telemarketing person.
On one occasion, NBO invoiced us and then send debt collection letters when we refused to pay.
We spent considerable time to have this invoiced sorted.
The last telemarketing call was last week where I was extremely rude to the telemarketer.
Today, I received a massage from a person who identified herself as SONYA, the Manager of NBO.
I called her back on her cell number 021-1109-363.
During the conversation with her the following was stated that our company must have agreed to the listing in NBO 2 years ago.
She stated they had new staff on and there was some confusion
They would take us OFF their call list
This is a blowhard telemarketing scam similar to old days of the NZ Mobile Phone Directory, (which in turn was a refined version of the early “International Telex Directory”)
The telemarketers are on small retainers and big commissions for securing a signed contract by way of quick and dirty faxes.
They hide behind a box number and the company listed phone numbers are seldom answered.
Disclosure today from “Sonya” revealed that the name Shallandra Singh is still involved in the business.
This person was reveled as the Manager of NBO when it was first investigated in 2004.
keep these posts running and continue to drive these thieves out of business.
NBO are a bunch of con artists out to scam a quick buck, they repeated call and fax you and ask you to re-new a listing you never created to begin with, whats more you can’t get them to go away either – hanging up doesn’t even work they just phone back!!. They are worse than a bad smell and only keep persisting in the hope of catching some lazy or new staff member who will pass things through to pay rather than check it…know this much those who don’t fall for it and who don’t pay up will unfortunately stay on their site listing anyway, (I’m guessing they use their own database to make calls from…more’s the pity).
Here’s hoping someone out there can stop them and get them off the face of the planet !!!
NBO – My partner was taken in my this company and thought he was helping me by replying to their fax asking to renew my listing. I was away at the time. As soon as I realised what he had done I rang NBO every day for a week and left messages saying we wish to cancel – no calls were returned. We then tried faxing and writing – still no response. Today I’ve received correspondence from them demanding payment or they will forward by invoice to a credit collection company. I do not know what to do next. I am very reluctant to pay the amount they say I owe but to seek legal advise would cost more than the debt.
Ruth,
I keep thinking that NBO have changed their ways and then someone else will post and remind me how important it is not to turn a blind eye.
I would write a sternly worded letter documenting the dates you have called and faxed and written – for your own benefit and records even if they appear not to receive it.
The amount will only be claimed via small claims and any decent credit collection agency will listen to you. I suspect, though, that it’s an empty threat and you can safely call their bluff.
We too have been taken in by this company, well almost. Have still not paid their invoice and have tried on numerous occasions to cancel, fax, phone, cell phone call to “Sonya” (got ph numbr from Garrys posting)but to no avail.
Today they contacted our business and wanted our credit card details over the phone to pay for the outstanding invoice and if we didnt pay within 24 hours we would be taken to court!!! My husband got very stern with them, reminding them we had sent a fax to cancel the “contract”. They advised that we had not cancelled it within 24hrs of first signing the form.
Very reluctant to pay but like Ruth, we feel that any legal advice far outweighs the cost of the debt. Our listing is even incorrect!!
NBO are scamers. My company also been harrased by them to pay for our advertising ‘renewal’ however the company that we are surpose to be advertising is in name only – it is not acutually a business so why would we ever advertise. I have had a call from a debit collection agency but will not pay and will pass this matter onto the Police, Consumers, and the Fraud Office.
We are in exactly the same position as Pamela, Suzanne and Ruth. Can we get together and do something about this very unethical company? We don’t want to pay on principal – we had never paid to list with them and the site is useless.
Have done a search on both Google and Yahoo for Business Directories in New Zealand – gave up after 10 pages on Google and when I came across this on Yahoo.
Victory for those who stand up to these scammers. I contacted NBO today and advised them I was passing their details to the Police and Fraud Office as it was obviously they were pro forma scamming. I also contacted the Consumers Institute and listed them as a potential scamming company. All of you should do this as well. Just received an email from NBO that my ‘invoice’ had been cancelled and I owed them nothing. Under no circumstances what so ever pay their ‘bill’, You can also file against them with the Ministry of Consumer Affairs for a breach of the Consumer Act and the Fair Trading Act. I will also pass this onto Fair Go.
Ladies – I congratulate you! NBO (NBD) seem to be very busy of late and I’m really pleased that you aren’t just paying the bill to make the problem go away.
Pamela – thanks for letting us know how YOU have really made it go away, please – everyone else, follow suit!
I am updating to let you know that we have finally got NBO off our backs. Contacted Consumer Affairs to lay an official complaint. They were “very aware” of what they are up to. NBO then phoned us again to see where their money was, again threatening court action. I then told them to “bring it on” They were never gonna get any money out of us and that we would see them in court. They then started backing down, all apologetic and said that they would remove us from their listing and we would never hear from them again… so far so good!! So I would suggest to anyone in the same position to play them at their own game. Call their bluff. It worked for us.
We have also just received notification that our invoice has been cancelled and that they would remove us from their web site – we requested this as we do not wish to be associated with them in any way. Thank you Pamela and Suzanne for your advice. After reading your latest comments I changed the wording of my fax to them.
I just received yet another fax from NBO for the ‘renewal of current business listing’ despite never having listed our company on this site. I have repeatedly asked to have our company details removed from their database, but I continue to receive phonecalls & faxes. I have reported the scam on the Consumer Affairs website. I am now keeping records of all faxes and phonecalls – maybe get a protection order for harrassment!! Keep up the posts!
These guys have been harassing us for months regarding an invoice we paid 9 months ago.
I went to the office today to do some sniffing around.
Level 3 87-89 Albert Street AK, No sign on the directory in the lobby and no sign on the door (directly opposite the lift)
Sure enough when I started asking about the reconciliation process for payment received they got very nervous. I asked what percent they were able to reconcile “30-40%” and what attempts were made to match payment to outstanding invoices “to difficult”
WHAT CAN WE DO TO GIVE THIS MORE OF A PUBLIC HEARRING.
is there any value in going to Fair GO
Yes there probably is… they wouldn’t do a full article but they could do a “warning”.
What a bunch of con artist. Asking to renew advertising that we have never had in the first place. They are persistent with faxing, emailing and phoning. Very glad I checked with my local web hosting company before going further. I have enclosed a copy of the email. I agree Fair Go should give them a run for their money. How can someone sit behind a desk all day long doing this. Isn’t there better things to be doing with our precious business time than watching out for these scams. – BE AWARE OF THE FOLLOWING.
Hi Kylie
Please find attached your NBO renewal form as requested. Please fill out your details and fax, email or post back.
At the bottom of the attached form please state “I am happy to renew for a further two years at $96.00” if you do not sign it physically.
Regards
Diane
Hi there.
After recently purchasing a company I was also sent the fax to renew our listing.
I faxed it back the same day to get the 3 free months.
The next day I was informed by the previous owner that he had never listed with them. Things started to sound fishy. I received the invoice a week later but it did not have the free three months on it.
I rang and emailed and left several messages but was not contacted until about 3 days later.
I told Belinda that I was not impressed with their service and told her I wanted to cancel. She then threatned me with debt collecters.
Today I had a ring from their accounts department asking for payment. I told them that my listing should have been cancelled.
The guy was very apologetic and told me he would speak to belinda and repremand her and that he would also cancel my listing.
About 2 hours later the rang back to say that belinda had been told off but that it could not be cancelled.
He has then offered to give me an extra year and a 30 word blurb. He also said we would appear at the top of our categories.
He says he is going to ring me back today to confirm but after reading this article I am going to tell him where to shove it!
If you want to increase exposure about this scam go to http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411879/726685 and fill in/submit the electronic form. If Fair Go get enough complaints, they may consider running a story.
These guys are still at it!
Got a call this morning. “Renew you listing” for 2 years for $96. ‘Renee’ said we’ve had 2 years free listing & received an impressive number of hits. “Get extra 3 months free if you sign & fax back by 12 noon”. Told her that wasn’t possible. She then offered a 5pm deadline.
Never heard of NBO & never set up a listing with them! “We used to be NBD” (sounded like ubd). (apn (ubd) have offices in albert st but not at 87-89). Checked out their ‘business directory’ it is primitive & limited & offered little benefit to those listed.
What a scam!
We were being continuously harrased by NBO and what a hassle to get them to leave you alone! Someone accidently signed a form and sent it back while I was away, but thankfully I could talk my way out of it as NBO had put the wrong year on the contract. I sent them a very sternly worded fax back and haven’t heard from them for a while now.
BUT… today I arrived at work and there is a fax from ‘NZCareerExpo’ asking if we want a booth at the expo for $4000 or $7500 (depending on the options we want). At the bottom it is signed ‘Sonia’. Straight away alarm bells started going off in my head due to the similarity of the forms… and I was right. The cell phone number Sonia has provided is the same one that someone has listed up further. Maybe they are branching out now… who knows!! But I can honestly say that we will not be going to this career expo!
I have just checked out a couple of the websites associated with the Career Expo fax I have recieved and it seems funny that they all have the same or very similar contact details!!
What do others think??
http://www.nzcareerexpo.co.nz
http://www.jobleader.co.nz
I notice that the Job Leader website advertises the NBO site aswell!
If you look at the domain registration for these two they point straight back at NBO. Great! More scamming for them to do!!!
http://whois.domaintools.com/nzcareerexpo.co.nz
http://whois.domaintools.com/jobleader.co.nz
One point about both those sites… the contact us page doesn’t give names – there’s no concept of the people behind it. I’d certainly want to know who the organisers are before sinking my dosh into a stand. I had a play at submitting some info and the Expo site falls over 🙂
Hi,
Just to confirm that NBO are still active. 2 faxes and 2 calls in 2 days. When I mentioned that we don’t recall making a listing the telemarketer said we’d been given 2 years free listing. Also she mentioned that they used to be NBD.
I had a phone call from Sonia today wanting to know if I was interested in taking up the offer for a stand at the expo. I told her that I was absolutely not interested to which she sounded surprised about the how certain I was that I didnt want to attend. She asked why and was trying to encourage me to sign up so I told her that I was not interested in fact I had trouble with one of her other companies, mainly the NBO to which she backed off and said goodbye
National business online as a former employee i could go on and on and on abot the parctises in that company but clearly i cant the only thing i can say is check your records!!!!! because chances are it never was you think businesses are the only ones getting scamed all employees are aswell weekely new staff brought in and sacked in a few days practises such as these should be illegal
I’m the GM of the NZ Job Expo and continually get calls from my clients on a daily basis complaining that Sonia has called them in a harrassing way and saying that she is from my company – the NZ Job Expo. I’d love for Fair Go to do a story. That is a low and dodgy move to try and pretend to my clients and luckily for me I have a good relationship with every single one of my clients and they have all called me straight away to tell me.Sonia came to our expo a couple of weeks ago and walked around the stands telling my exhibitors that they shouldnt be there at our expo but rather should book a stand at the NZ Career Expo. Which is like basically telling the exhibitors that their recruitment strategy is stupid. It didnt go well. No one appreciated them being there.Sonia was asked to leave the premises but wouldnt. She stood outside the front doors screaming really disgustingabuse at myself and the Director of the NZ Job Expo until I had to threaten to call the police. Unbelievably unprofessional. I wouldnt touch these guys with a barge pole.
Oh MY God, Yous all need to get a life, Some of yous have no idea, Nothing better to do i guess!!!!
Maybe we do, but every time someone steals from a company it destroys the trust we have in others and reduces the profitability of our companies.
Lyn, somehow bad feelings and this company seem to run deep – I think you need to find a new line of business……
yeah had the run in with their filthy little scam.
Got caught out when I was busy have actually paid them but they say it was never received, I still havn’t done anything about it and will continue not too they keep threatening me with collection agencys
but they still havn’t put their money where their mouths are this has been going on for 10 months now hope they rot in hell…ps Lyn on jan the 18th obviously doesn’t have a life either…
well they have finally sent me a final notice .
does any one know if they actually have a collections agency that would stand up to their petty scam…?????
I recently worked for National buisness online, and as I am a school leaver, I was trying to find my first job, I saw an ad in the paper, I called up and immediately got an interview, I went in and got the job! it was $16 an hour as a starting wage which is why I took the job in the first place.
I worked there for about 2 and a half weeks, then I resigned. I had recieved no pay slips, NO CONTRACT and had to make up infomation about the clients listing views, I was very uncomfortable with how it was run and a few people I called even told me what I was doing was illegal! I tried to talk to my team leader about this and she simply said ‘don’t worry it happens all the time’ so I thought nothing of it, until it happened again, and again etc.
no one remembered listing with nbo which I thought was very weird.
I worried about the ‘clients’ in which I was selling to, and in the end resigned as I mentioned above.
d.
I haven’t had them proceed with collections even thou it was threatened. The suggestion of legal involvement from me has meant we haven’t heard from them again. I would suggest do not pay it and get some legal advise.
OMG – I hit the top of the queue.
It seems that we’ve been given another free listing (you’d have to wonder why).
I just spoke to Lynette (who has been there 6 months) and she wanted me to “renew”. When I asked for payment details she advised that we’ve had a free listing for 2 years. Couldn’t give me a link but advised me to search. When I questioned her further she said I could speak to her manager – Sonia. When I said that she was also implicated in fraud she hung up on me!
I don’t think they can handle being stood up to, alot of them are desperate for money and jobs, and will pretty much do anything for it, I don’t think thats an excuse though.
NBO, what a joke!!
Ive been meaning to comment this blog for a while now,to let others know how fake that company is. I have recieved many calls in the past from this company n have always told them im not interested in being on their website,yet they just call and call and call. I recieved a call two days ago from a young lady who went on and on about how we can b listed for 96 dollers for 2 years bla bla, and that i have had “579” hits in the last year!! Wen asked how they monitor,she replied its all done internally through some traffic meter! I listened n then tld her im not interested n to remove from database! Funny enough, about 2 hours later i recieve anothr call from NBO,this time a much older woman, i let her go on, untill she came up to my hits,and informed me i had 789 hits in the last year. So which was it? 579 or 789?
It seems pretty dodgy to me, especially since i know i wud never have listed with them,n they try to say i signed up for a free listing!And i also ask my clients how they came across my company. Not once have they said NBO!
A friend of mine has had numerous calls from this scamming company too, and wen asked to speak to the manager “Sonia”, the telemarketer informd her that sonia was in a meeting and will Phone back. My friend never heard back.
This company is fake,a scam and should b sued for the misleading practises and lies they tell!!
comment 42 – Lyn = hilarious. I can only presume that this Lyn is Lynette who works for NBO. Would make sense given her command of the English language.
NBO need to be taken out of business. I am contacting the Commerce Commission to see what can be done about them.